A $7,500 note course invoice has sat unpaid for a week

The Friday deadline isn't a dumb reason. Real education businesses have cohort start dates, which is a legitimate deadline. Fake urgency is a discount that expires. Which one is it? If the price goes back up Friday and stays up, that's a start date. If the same offer shows up again in three weeks, you learned something about them for free.

6 percent of your capital on education isn't crazy to me. What's crazy is 6 percent of your capital on education from the guy who's also going to be your counterparty. I'd want those two functions in different hands even if the education is genuinely good.

Buy one small note first. Seriously. In rural markets you can find seller-financed paper on cheap houses in the low five figures, and the whole education happens in about six months of collecting payments and reading your own servicing statements. You'll be wrong about something and it'll cost you a few thousand, which is less than the course, and you'll never forget the lesson.

Downside is you'll be wrong about the collateral, which is the expensive kind of wrong. Get someone to look at the property before you buy the paper on it.

hollow, the "buy one and learn" thing works fine in renovation where a mistake shows up as a $6,000 overrun. Paper mistakes show up as a lien position you didn't understand and a two-year foreclosure timeline, and foreclosure process and cost vary enormously by state, judicial versus non-judicial. Vellum, before you spend anything, find out which kind of state your target collateral is in, because that changes the whole math on a non-performing note.

That's not an argument for the $7,500. It's an argument that the tuition-by-doing route can cost more than the course.

Five months of reading and still confused is a normal place to be, and it's also the exact emotional state these programs are priced against. I've been in analysis for longer than that on a different strategy and the thing that broke it for me wasn't a course, it was doing one small thing badly.

Still, harrow has a point about the failure modes being worse here.

The conflict you named is the real issue and it's not disqualifying by itself. Plenty of the people who genuinely know paper make their living trading it, and the ones who only teach are usually teaching from 2011.

What I'd do is ask for one thing in writing: does the program disclose, per note offered to students, the price his entity acquired it at and the date? If yes, the conflict is managed and you can decide whether his markup is fair. If he won't, you're buying a course from your own dealer.

Also ask what servicer they use and whether you're required to use it. Forced servicing arrangements are where the fee stack hides.

The other thing I'd read before spending a dollar is an actual collateral file. Note, allonge chain, assignment chain, title policy, servicing comments, payment history. Ask them to send you one redacted file from a past student deal. If the material is good, that file will make sense to you after week two. If they won't send one, you've learned what the course is.

fathom's collateral file test is the one I'd steal. I asked something similar of a fund I was looking at and the speed of the answer told me more than the deck did.

Naive question from someone who mostly wants income and not a second job. Why is paper the thing you want? You've described five months of confusion and a $7,500 entry fee before the first purchase. If the goal is monthly income on $120k, there are duller ways to get there that don't require you to understand assignment chains.

Not saying don't. Just asking whether the strategy chose you or you chose it.

marlow, the documents are the appeal for some of us. I'd rather read an assignment chain than manage a tenant, and that's a real preference and not a mistake.

vellum, one more thing to check on the deal desk. Ask whether students are buying whole notes in their own name or fractional interests in something the instructor's entity holds. Fractional participations can raise securities questions depending on how they're papered, and that's a question for a securities attorney rather than for the forum. It changes what you're actually buying.

I'd take the $2,000 course and spend the difference on two things. Four or five paid consulting hours with someone who trades paper and has no product to sell you, and a good attorney in the state where you'd buy collateral, for one meeting about foreclosure timelines and costs there.

That's roughly $5,500 of your gap and you end up with tailored answers instead of a cohort. The thing you lose is the room, and I don't know how much the room is worth to you.

Everyone's assuming the education is the product. For most of these the community is the product and the curriculum is the excuse. So ask the same question I ask about any of them: how many people in last year's cohort are still active in the group, and can you talk to two of them who didn't buy anything from the deal desk?

I've been researching for six months without a single deal, so I recognize the shape of this post. What I've noticed in myself is that buying a course feels like progress and it isn't. It moved my start date back by about four months while I felt busy.

I'm not saying the $7,500 is that. I'm saying check whether the invoice is sitting in your inbox because you want the knowledge or because you want the week to feel productive.

I read a lot of the free note material last year and gave up. The free stuff explains what a note is and stops right where you're stuck, which is sourcing and diligence, because that's the part people sell. So I don't think "just read more" is an answer here.

The $400 self-paced one you mentioned, has anyone actually taken it? Seems like it would at least tell vellum whether the vocabulary sticks before spending twenty times that.

Frame it as capital allocation. $7,500 against $120k deployed over two years is 6.25 percent of principal, and you'd need the course to improve your outcome by roughly 3 percent a year across the whole book just to break even on the tuition. On paper yields that's not a small edge to have to find.

The counter is that one avoided bad note pays for it several times over, and beginners in this asset class buy bad notes. So the question is really whether you'd otherwise buy a bad note in year one, and I'd guess most people would.

meridian's math assumes the alternative is you buying safely with no education, which isn't on the menu. The realistic alternative is you buying something ugly for $20k and learning from it. That's the comparison.

I've paid tuition to the market plenty of times. It works. It's just expensive and slow and everyone pretends afterward that they planned it.

One thing from the operating side. Whatever you decide, the first note you buy will take three times the hours you budgeted for it, because you'll be checking everything twice. Factor that in against your day job before you commit to a cohort with weekly calls on top.

I'd want the dullest version of this. Buy the $2,000 one, do the work, and see if you're still interested in four months. Interest that survives four months of unglamorous study is worth spending $7,500 on. Interest that doesn't survive saved you $7,500.

The deal desk will still exist in the spring. If it doesn't, you dodged something.

Came from building things into the investing side and the mistake I made was buying education before I had a specific question. The $12k I spent taught me a lot of general material I'd have absorbed for free once I had a live deal to hang it on.

vellum, you actually have a specific question, which is how sourcing and diligence work. That's better than where most buyers of these courses are. I'd still take fathom's test first. Ask for the redacted collateral file and the acquisition price disclosure, and let Friday pass. If both come back clean next week and the price went up, pay the higher price and you've bought from someone who answers questions.